Making Sense of Zappos’ War on Managers
Our Privacy Policy has been updated! The Conference Board uses cookies to improve our website, enhance your experience, and deliver relevant messages and offers about our products. Detailed information on the use of cookies on this site is provided in our cookie policy. For more information on how The Conference Board collects and uses personal data, please visit our privacy policy. By continuing to use this Site or by clicking "ACCEPT", you acknowledge our privacy policy and consent to the use of cookies. 
Our Privacy Policy has been updated! Detailed information on the use of cookies on this site is provided in our cookie policy and our privacy policy. 
TCB Tourch
Loading...
  •  
    • NORTH AMERICA
    • EUROPE
    • ASIA
  • 2

    Close
    • Insights
        • Insights
        • Explore by Center
          • Explore by Center
          • CED
            Committee for Economic Development

          • Economy, Strategy & Finance

          • Governance & Sustainability

          • Human Capital

          • Marketing & Communications

        • Explore by Content Type
          • Explore by Content Type
          • Reports

          • Upcoming Webcasts

          • On Demand Webcasts

          • Podcasts

          • Charts & Infographics

          • Explore All Research

          • Economic Indicators

        • Trending Topics
          • Trending Topics
          • Artificial Intelligence (AI)

          • Navigating Washington

          • Geopolitics

          • US Economic Forecast

          • Sustainability

          • Future of Work

          • Explore All Trending Topics

    • Events
        • Events
        • Upcoming Events
          • Upcoming Events
          • 26th Annual Employee Health Care Conference – San Diego

          • Corporate Citizenship Awards Dinner

          • 2026 Corporate Citizenship Summit

          • 2026 M&A Summit - New York

          • Organizational Transformation: Where Change Meets the Human Experience

          • CHRO Summit: Turning Uncertainty into Growth

          • Explore all Upcoming Events

          • Sponsor a Program

        • Member-Exclusive Programs
          • Member-Exclusive Programs
          • Center Briefings

          • Expert Briefings

          • Experts Live

          • Roundtables

          • Working Groups

          • View all Upcoming Events, Programs, and Webcasts

    • Data
        • Data
        • All Data

        • Consumer Confidence Index®

        • Data Central

        • TCB Benchmarking

        • Recession & Growth Trackers

        • Global Economic Outlook

        • Leading Economic Indicators

        • Help Wanted OnLine

        • Labor Markets

        • Measure of CEO Confidence

        • CMO+CCO Meter Dashboard

    • Centers
        • Centers
        • Our Centers
          • Our Centers
          • Committee for Economic Development

          • Economy, Strategy & Finance

          • Governance & Sustainability

          • Human Capital

          • Marketing & Communications

    • Councils
        • Councils
        • Find a Council
          • Find a Council
          • Economy, Strategy & Finance

          • Governance & Sustainability

          • Human Capital

          • Marketing & Communications

        • Council Membership
          • Council Membership
          • What is a Council?

          • Benefits of Council Membership

          • Apply to a Council

    • Membership
        • Membership
        • Why Become a Member?
          • Why Become a Member?
          • Benefits of Membership

          • Check if Your Organization is a Member

          • Speak to a Membership Associate

        • Types of Membership
          • Types of Membership
          • C-Suite

          • Leadership

          • Council

          • Higher Education

          • Insights

        • Already a Member?
          • Already a Member?
          • Sign In to myTCB®

          • Executive Communities

          • Member-Exclusive Programs

          • Refer a Leader - Earn a Reward

    • About Us
        • About Us
        • Who We Are
          • Who We Are
          • About Us

          • In the News

          • Press Releases

          • Our History

          • Support Our Work

          • Locations

          • Contact Us

        • Our Community
          • Our Community
          • Our Leadership

          • Our Experts

          • Trustees

          • Voting Members

          • Global Counsellors

          • Careers

          • This Week @ TCB

          • Continuing Education Credits (CEUs)

    • Careers
    • This Week @ TCB
    • Sign In to myTCB®
      • NORTH AMERICA
      • EUROPE
      • ASIA
    • Insights
      • Insights
      • Explore by Center
        • Explore by Center
        • CED
          Committee for Economic Development

        • Economy, Strategy & Finance

        • Governance & Sustainability

        • Human Capital

        • Marketing & Communications

      • Explore by Content Type
        • Explore by Content Type
        • Reports

        • Upcoming Webcasts

        • On Demand Webcasts

        • Podcasts

        • Charts & Infographics

        • Explore All Research

        • Economic Indicators

      • Trending Topics
        • Trending Topics
        • Artificial Intelligence (AI)

        • Navigating Washington

        • Geopolitics

        • US Economic Forecast

        • Sustainability

        • Future of Work

        • Explore All Trending Topics

    • Events
      • Events
      • Upcoming Events
        • Upcoming Events
        • 26th Annual Employee Health Care Conference – San Diego

        • Corporate Citizenship Awards Dinner

        • 2026 Corporate Citizenship Summit

        • 2026 M&A Summit - New York

        • Organizational Transformation: Where Change Meets the Human Experience

        • CHRO Summit: Turning Uncertainty into Growth

        • Explore all Upcoming Events

        • Sponsor a Program

      • Member-Exclusive Programs
        • Member-Exclusive Programs
        • Center Briefings

        • Expert Briefings

        • Experts Live

        • Roundtables

        • Working Groups

        • View all Upcoming Events, Programs, and Webcasts

    • Data
      • Data
      • All Data

      • Consumer Confidence Index®

      • Data Central

      • TCB Benchmarking

      • Recession & Growth Trackers

      • Global Economic Outlook

      • Leading Economic Indicators

      • Help Wanted OnLine

      • Labor Markets

      • Measure of CEO Confidence

      • CMO+CCO Meter Dashboard

    • Centers
      • Centers
      • Our Centers
        • Our Centers
        • Committee for Economic Development

        • Economy, Strategy & Finance

        • Governance & Sustainability

        • Human Capital

        • Marketing & Communications

    • Councils
      • Councils
      • Find a Council
        • Find a Council
        • Economy, Strategy & Finance

        • Governance & Sustainability

        • Human Capital

        • Marketing & Communications

      • Council Membership
        • Council Membership
        • Benefits of Council Membership

        • Apply to a Council

        • Our Program Directors

    • Membership
      • Membership
      • Why Become a Member?
        • Why Become a Member?
        • Benefits of Membership

        • Check if Your Organization is a Member

        • Speak to a Membership Associate

      • Types of Membership
        • Types of Membership
        • C-Suite

        • Leadership

        • Council

        • Higher Education

        • Insights

      • Already a Member?
        • Already a Member?
        • Sign In to myTCB®

        • Executive Communities

        • Member-Exclusive Programs

        • Refer a Leader - Earn a Reward

    • About Us
      • About Us
      • Who We Are
        • Who We Are
        • About Us

        • In the News

        • Press Releases

        • This Week @ TCB

        • Our History

        • Support Our Work

        • Locations

        • Contact Us

      • Our Community
        • Our Community
        • Our Leadership

        • Our Experts

        • Trustees

        • Voting Members

        • Global Counsellors

        • Careers

        • This Week @ TCB

        • Continuing Education Credits (CEUs)

    • Careers
    • Sign In to myTCB®
    • Download TCB Insights App
  • Insights
    Insights

    Our research and analysis have helped the world's leading companies navigate challenges and seize opportunities for over 100 years.

    Economic Indicators

    • Explore by Center
    • CED
      Committee for Economic Development
    • Economy, Strategy & Finance
    • Governance & Sustainability
    • Human Capital
    • Marketing & Communications
    • Explore by Content Type
    • Reports
    • Upcoming Webcasts
    • On Demand Webcasts
    • Podcasts
    • Charts & Infographics
    • Trending Topics
    • Artificial Intelligence (AI)
    • Navigating Washington
    • Geopolitics
    • US Economic Forecast
    • Sustainability
    • Future of Work
    • Explore All Trending Topics
  • Events
    Events

    Our in-person and virtual events offer unmatched opportunities for professional development, featuring top experts and practitioners.

    View all Upcoming Events, Programs, and Webcasts

    Sponsor a Program

    • Upcoming Events
    • 26th Annual Employee Health Care Conference – San Diego

      April 15 - 17, 2026

      Corporate Citizenship Awards Dinner

      April 22, 2026

      2026 Corporate Citizenship Summit

      April 23 - 24, 2026

    •  
    • 2026 M&A Summit - New York

      May 06, 2026

      Organizational Transformation: Where Change Meets the Human Experience

      May 14 - 15, 2026

      CHRO Summit: Turning Uncertainty into Growth

      June 03, 2026

    • Member-Exclusive Programs
    • Center Briefings
    • Expert Briefings
    • Experts Live
    • Roundtables
    • Working Groups
    • Explore by Type
    • Events
    • Webcasts
    • Podcasts
    • Member-Exclusive Programs
    • Center Briefings
    • Expert Briefings
    • Experts Live
    • Roundtables
    • Working Groups
  • Data
    Corporate Disclosure Data

    TCB Benchmarking

    Real-time data visualizations to benchmark your governance, compensation, environmental, human capital management (HCM) and social practices against US public companies.

    Economic Data

    All Data

    Consumer Confidence Index®

    Data Central

    One-stop, member-exclusive portal for the entire suite of indicators

    Labor Markets

    Measure of CEO Confidence

     

    Recession & Growth Trackers

    Current & future state of 16 economies

    Global Economic Outlook

    Growth outlooks for 77 economies

    Leading Economic Indicators

    State of the business cycle for 12 global economies across Asia and Europe

    Help Wanted OnLine

    Status of the US job market

    Other Featured Data

    CMO+CCO Meter Dashboard

  • Centers
    Centers

    Centers offer access to world-class experts, research, events, and senior executive communities.

    Our Centers
    • Committee for Economic Development
    • Economy, Strategy & Finance
    • Governance & Sustainability
    • Human Capital
    • Marketing & Communications
  • Councils
    Councils

    Councils are invitation-only, peer-led communities of senior executives that come together to exchange knowledge, accelerate career development, and advance their function.

    Find a Council
    • Economy, Strategy & Finance
    • Governance & Sustainability
    • Human Capital
    • Marketing & Communications
    Council Membership
    • Benefits of Council Membership
    • Apply to a Council
    • Our Program Directors
  • Membership
    Membership

    Membership in The Conference Board arms top executives and their teams with an arsenal of knowledge, networks, and expertise that's unmatched in scope and depth.

    • Why Become a Member?
    • Benefits of Membership
    • Check if Your Organization is a Member
    • Speak to a Membership Associate
    • Types of Membership
    • C-Suite
    • Leadership
    • Council
    • Higher Education
    • Insights
    • Already a Member?
    • Sign in to myTCB®
    • Executive Communities
    • Member-Exclusive Programs
    • Refer a Leader - Earn a Reward
  • About Us
    About Us

    The Conference Board is the global, nonprofit think tank and business membership organization that delivers Trusted Insights for What's Ahead®. For over 100 years, our cutting-edge research, data, events and executive networks have helped the world's leading companies understand the present and shape the future.

    • Who We Are
    • About Us
    • In the News
    • Press Releases
    • Our History
    • Support Our Work
    • Locations
    • Contact Us
    • Our Community
    • Our Leadership
    • Our Experts
    • Trustees
    • Voting Members
    • Careers
    • This Week @ TCB
    • Continuing Education Credits (CEUs)
Check if You're a Member
Create Account
Forgot Your Password?

Members of The Conference Board get exclusive access to the full range of products and services that deliver Trusted Insights for What's Ahead ® including webcasts, publications, data and analysis, plus discounts to conferences and events.

Human Capital Briefs

Making Sense of Zappos’ War on Managers

20 May 2015 / Brief

Download Brief
  • Email
  • Linkedin
  • Facebook
  • X
  • Copy Link

In the early 1980s, Ralph Stayer sent a long memo and a $200 check to every employee of his family business. Since taking over as CEO, sales had increased fifteen-fold. Profits were up 150%. Headcount was growing. Regional expansion was underway. But Stayer wasn’t happy. Product quality and employees morale weren’t as high as he wanted. Everything, he had resolved, had to change.

His letter announced a compensation restructuring, which accompanied a dismantling of hierarchy and the introduction of self-managed, self-organizing teams throughout the company.

The purpose of a company, he proclaimed, was not to make money; it was to help its members (Stayer banned the term employee) thrive. Innovation, customer delight, and profits would all follow from it. As he put it, “Helping human beings fulfill their potential is of course a moral responsibility, but it’s also good business. Life is aspiration. Learning, striving people are happy people and good workers. They have initiative and imagination, and the companies they work for are rarely caught napping.”

He would later call this the most important insight of his career.

The change was neither easy nor popular at first. Two years in, Stayer fired three top managers because they kept deferring to him. Deference to the CEO did not fit into his vision of “an organization where people took responsibility for their own work, for the product, for the company as a whole.”

Stayer soon became the darling of management gurus. His struggle to transform the Johnsonville Sausage Company into a beacon of enlightened business was chronicled widely and became a best-selling case study.

I enjoyed teaching that case for many years. No matter how I framed it, no matter how senior the managers in the audience, the debate would eventually come to Stayer’s motives for changing a solid business on a whim.

Why was he doing it?

Some managers would argue that it was a smart yet ultimately superficial change: a calculated strategy to get people to care more, work harder, and boost company profits. That was all Stayer cared about, really. Others saw it as a deeper change in values, a realization that business should serve a broader purpose, perhaps brought about by Stayer’s involvement in his community, impending middle age, or religious faith. A few viewed it as a clever and/or selfish experiment, a ploy to draw attention to his firm and to amuse himself.

There is a video of Stayer charming a roomful of skeptical MBA students, and an article about his trajectory as a leader that he wrote for this magazine in 1990. When I showed them to managers in my classes, their opinions ranged from “he is unassuming and charismatic” to “he is an anxious egomaniac.”

Leading Means Shaping Culture

There was a great lesson in those debates. It was not about whether self-managing, self-organizing systems “work.” We have known they do since they were introduced among British miners whose industry had been disrupted by new technology. Allowing teams to set their targets, plan the work, and manage staffing, a landmark study showed, restored the “responsible autonomy” that miners had lost due to technology and improved their satisfaction and productivity. That study appeared in 1951, long before Stayer’s memo. We also know that these systems are hard to implement, that they are demanding for everyone involved, and that many mistrust them regardless of the evidence.

The lesson was about a central—I would argue existential—paradox of leading: If you are not leading culture, you are not leading at all. If you are leading culture, not everyone will follow.

Those who aspire to lead are rarely content with their organization’s financial success. Sooner or later, they want to shape its culture. Making the numbers, they realize, keeps a leader employed. But it is only half of his or her performance.

Whereas recent views of leadership tend to emphasize the instrumental meaning of performance, the extent to which a leader meets contracted goals, there is also a cultural meaning of performance. This underscores the extent to which a leader credibly embodies a set of values, a desirable lifestyle. Unless you attend to both dimensions of performance, you will not be regarded as a leader in the long run.

When leaders do focus on culture, however, they generate both enthusiasm and suspicion. Especially when they attempt to change the structures, norms, and arrangements that people are familiar with. No news there.

“How many of you would like your work to have a broader impact than just making money for yourself and your firm?” I would usually ask managers towards the end of our debate on Ralph Stayer’s tenure at Johnsonville. Most raised their hands. “How will you deal with the cynicism that many of us have demonstrated here today towards Mr. Stayer?” I would ask next. “How will you deal with the fact that mistrust in leaders has grown exponentially since Stayer’s days, and you will likely not be the company owner as you face resistance?”

No matter how good a leader’s intention, how strong their track record, how smooth their style, leadership will still generate ambivalence. Unless they are able to work with that ambivalence, leaders often either try to suppress any opposition, becoming de facto fundamentalists, or give up.

I stopped using Stayer’s case in my classes a few years ago. Despite its timeless lessons, managers no longer wanted to debate the 1980s choices of a sausage company, even if it had since become a global brand. They wanted to hear about Semco, Southwest Airlines, Gore Tex, HCL. They wanted to hear about Zappos.

Zappos’ War on People Management

Tony Hsieh, the online retailer’s CEO, is but the latest in a long line of elite revolutionaries—larger-than-life corporate leaders who claim that meaning is more precious than money. Hsieh’s bestselling book’s title sums up his vision: “delivering happiness.”

Hsieh’s latest move has provoked the kind of ambivalence charismatic leadership always has. His own recent memo to employees announcing the abolition of people managers at Zappos didn’t come with a check but with an unusual offer: three months’ salary to read a management book and quit the company if they were not on board with the company’s planned transition to the form of organization that the book described. The book was about Holacracy, a manager-less system to support self-management and self-organization.

The offer of compensation to leave if unhappy is not new at Zappos, which has long paid new employees to quit. It was only unusually generous. What is new is that 14% of Zappos employees, 210 people in total, have taken it this time. The snarky takes are practically writing themselves.

Meanwhile, Hsieh has used a familiar tool, which underscores his consistent commitment to the Zappos culture, to tackle a major hurdle leaders face when they mandate change—making people choose it and showing the consequences of not doing so.

The 86% of Zappos employees who stayed are now likely to feel that they have chosen to forego money for a higher purpose. They voted for Holacracy with their wallets. Hsieh can take that as a mandate, and he has got it without firing anyone and keeping his options open. If the experiment succeeds, he will be hailed as a visionary once more. If it falters, it will be easier to swing the pendulum back towards more structure and supervision.

Admirers will speculate that those who took the offer were power clingy managers affronted by their loss of influence, or poor performers who had been able to hide behind the fail-safes of hierarchy. Skeptics might see them as people who disagreed that this was the best move for the company, did not trust Hsieh’s motives, had a better offer, or took the money to fund an entrepreneurial idea.

Here is one more suggestion. Perhaps those who left had a good manager and, faced with the prospect of losing him or her, expected their work life to get worse. The best managers do exactly what self-management systems aim to achieve, freeing people up to do their best work and grow in the process. Zappos’ ratio of stayers-to-goers squares up with a recent Gallup survey that found 90% of managers have little talent for managing people, leaving 10% who manage well. Despite those lopsided numbers, though, self-management is no panacea.

 

The Joys and Sorrows of Self-Management

Under the guise of freeing people up, self-management is often an effort to free the organization up first and foremost. Self-managed and self-organizing systems are meant to make a company more flexible in ever-shifting markets. They do so by increasing demands on its people.

They make it a requirement—not an option—to pour one’s heart into one’s job. While they abolish managers, they increase the amount of management. People work harder, and control gets more pervasive once it is exercised by everyone rather than by one boss. Issues have to be sorted out rather than delegated up.

Hsieh candidly recognized as much in his memo, writing that he expects peer pressure and visibility of results to sustain the same level of focus and productivity that bosses once did. He also outlined a clear methodology for resolving conflict that begins with a conversation between the parties involved. Slackers and conflict avoiders need not apply.

This is a common characteristic of self-organizing systems. They are often ruthless and easily become tribal. You are either “one of us,” if not demographically at least ideologically, or you’re too weak and boring to stay. Here is your check and best of luck.

On a good day, motivation in such “free” systems is provided by pride. On a bad day, by shame. Freedom is exciting if you feel confident, otherwise it can be paralyzing. (Hierarchy and management provide good cover against the very feelings that self-management stirs up—exhilaration, anxiety and shame.)

And if things are not working, you have no one to blame than yourself. This tyranny of freedom, some argue, is why societies where achievement and autonomy are valued above all else have growing incidences of depression among their members. All failure becomes personal.

Most of us, it seems, feel about the freedom to self-organize much the way we feel about leadership. We want some but not too much, and we are never too sure what it will do to us.

Once his company began to embrace self-organization, Ralph Stayer attempted to extend the idea to its logical conclusion. “For the last five years,” he wrote a quarter century ago, “my own aspiration has been to eliminate my job by creating such a crowd of self-starting, problem-solving, responsibility-grabbing, independent thinkers that Johnsonville would run itself.” He never succeeded.

Each time he took distance from Johnsonville, the culture he had so carefully curated slid backwards. Paradoxically, the more self-organization succeeded, the more needed he was. He was able to delegate instrumental performances, but never cultural ones. “Eventually,” Stayer realized, “I came to understand that everything I did and said had a symbolic as well as a literal meaning.”

The unwritten contract his people held him to seemed to be something like, “We’ll keep running the company as long as you continue minding its culture.” Like everyone else in a strong culture—most of all leaders—he could check out any time he liked, but he could never leave.

Stayer recently retired after 47 years on the job, hailed as the United States’ “Sausage King.” The title is ironic for someone who spent half a century trying to run a leaderless company. It is also a reminder that no matter how hard we try not to, we keep looking for leaders to admire, or to blame should things go wrong. That too, is human.

 

This blog first appeared on Harvard Business Review on 05/19/2015.

View our complete listing of Mission&Purpose@Work, Talent Management, and Employee Engagement blogs.

Great News!

You already have an account with The Conference Board.

Please try to login in with your email or click here if you have forgotten your password.

Create An Account



 

By Clicking 'Create Account', You Agree To Our Terms Of Use

Create Account
  • Download
  • Download Brief

Author

Gianpiero Petriglieri, M.D.

Gianpiero Petriglieri, M.D.

Visiting Associate Professor, Business Administration

Read BioGianpiero Petriglieri, M.D.

More From This Series

Brief

Communication Is Key In Supporting Employee Well-Being

May 30, 2024

Brief

Three Ways Managers Can Calm Employees’ Fears About Returning To Work

May 17, 2021

Brief

Agile processes for stable teams

March 08, 2021

Brief

Survey: 35 Percent of US Companies Do Not Know When They’ll Reopen Workplace

October 19, 2020

Brief

Employee Readiness Reopening Survey: Only 28 Percent of Workers Expect Return to Workplace by End of 2020

October 19, 2020

Brief

Three Ways to Navigate Political Divides at Work

October 07, 2020

View Less View More

Conference Board Sample Web Chat
chatbot-Icon
TCB Logo
chatbot-Icon
C-Suite Insights - Stay updated on the biggest issues facing business executives.
WHO WE ARE
  • About Us
  • Our History
  • Our Experts
  • Our Leadership
  • In the News
  • Press Releases
  • Locations
EXPLORE
  • Membership
  • Centers
  • Councils
  • Reports
  • Events
 
  • Webcasts
  • Podcasts
  • Data
  • Ask TCB
  • This Week @ TCB
CONTACT US
  • North America
    +1 212 759 0900
    customer.service@tcb.org
  • EMEA
    +32 2 675 5405
    brussels@tcb.org
  • Asia
    Hong Kong | +852 2804 1000
    Singapore | +65 8298 3403
    service.ap@tcb.org
CAREERS
  • See Open Positions
Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Event Code of Conduct | Trademarks
© 2026 The Conference Board Inc. All rights reserved. The Conference Board and torch logo are registered trademarks of The Conference Board.
The use of all The Conference Board data and materials is subject to the Terms of Use. Reprint requests are reviewed individually and may be subject to additional fees.The Conference Board reserves the right to deny any request.
Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Event Code of Conduct | Trademarks
© 2026 The Conference Board Inc. All rights reserved. The Conference Board and torch logo are registered trademarks of The Conference Board.
The use of all data from The Conference Board data and materials is subject to the Terms of Use. Reprint requests are reviewed individually and may be subject to additional fees.The Conference Board reserves the right to deny any request.

Thank you for signing up. You will now receive CEO Insights for What's Ahead every Wednesday morning. You can unsubscribe at any time or manage your preferences to receive more content from The Conference Board.

Important: Your Membership subscription payment is past due. We have not yet received your Membership payment. Please click the button below to pay your invoice.

Pay Invoice

Announcing The Conference Board AI Virtual Conference Series

Explore the Impact of AI on Your Business

Members receive complimentary registration - Learn more >>